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 Post subject: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 126
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/technology/companies/05chip.html?_r=3&emc=na
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/04/new-york-attorney-general-files-antitrust-lawsuit-against-intel/

Quote:
"No matter how it tries, Intel just can't shake those pesky antitrust monkeys off its back: the attorney general of New York today filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against the chipmaker, saying it unfairly prevented AMD from competing under state and federal law. That's pretty much what the EU just fined Intel $1.45b for in May and exactly what AMD itself is suing Intel for in Delaware, so we're guessing things are a little busy for Chipzilla's lawyers right now -- and it's just going to get worse, as the smart money says this is all just a precursor to the Federal Trade Commission dropping the hammer sometime soon. Hey, maybe this would be a good time to for Intel to distract everyone with some USB 3.0 chipsets?"

"The lawsuit charges that Intel violated state and federal laws by abusing its dominant position in the chip market to keep its main rival, Advanced Micro Devices, at bay. Intel has faced similar lawsuits in Asia and Europe, and in May the European Commission fined the company a record $1.45 billion for antitrust violations.
“Rather than compete fairly, Intel used bribery and coercion to maintain a stranglehold on the market,” Mr. Cuomo said in a statement. “Intel’s actions not only unfairly restricted potential competitors, but also hurt average consumers who were robbed of better products and lower prices.”


Now for the juicy evidence part that New York's attorney general has found:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/11/04/what-did-cuomo-find-in-intels-emails/?mod=yahoo_hs
Prepare yourself for the upcoming major failure of intel's legal department:
Quote:
135. On November 4, 2005 Otellini reported internally in a “Confidential — DO NOT FORWARD” email about “one of the most emotional calls I have ever, ever had with [Michael Dell].” In this email, Otellini wrote:

- [Michael Dell] opened by saying “I am tired of losing business” … he repeated it 3-4 times. I said nothing and waited.
- He has been traveling around the USA. He feels they are losing all the high margin business to AMD-based sku’s …
- He is ‘tired of being behind for 4 years (when I protested that it was 2, he said, no the last 2 years, this year, and next year).
- As a result, “Dell is no longer seen as a thought leader”

136. On Nov. 10, 2005, Michael Dell followed up with an email to Otellini: “We have lost the performance leadership and it’s seriously impacting our business in several areas.” Otellini’s reply: “There is nothing new here. Our product roadmap is what it is. It is improving rapidly daily. It will deliver increasingly leadership products … Additionally, we are transferring over $1B per year to Dell for meet comp efforts. This was judged by your team to be more than sufficient to compensate for the competitive issues.”

137. Michael Dell, however, continued to press home to Intel its performance deficit and its effects on Dell. On November 24, 2005 he capped an email exchange with Otellini by writing: “None of the current benchmarks and reviews say that Intel based systems are better than AMD. We are losing the hearts, minds and wallets of our best customers.”

139. On February 16, 2006, Intel took note of a service report in which Dell’s CEO Kevin Rollins had said that Dell had “made no plans to begin using” AMD chips. “Finally something positive” commented one Intel executive. Otellini commented: “The best friend money can buy.”

***
140. By April 2006, Dell’s relationship with Intel reached a breaking point. As Michael Dell wrote: “Intel – we overestimated both their ability to execute and our true competitive position with them and we underestimated AMD. And we relied too much on rebates from Intel.”

141. Dell was finally ready to act, despite the pressure and incentives from Intel. In an April 29 email to other top Dell executives, Michael Dell wrote: “We have been looking at the situation for a long time, and have decided to introduce a broad range of AMD based systems into our product line to provide the choice our customers are asking for.”

142. The reaction of Craig Barrett, Intel’s Board Chairman, was unequivocal: Dell should immediately be deprived of the payments it had long enjoyed in return for its willingness not to offer AMD products, and should start paying “list prices.” Barrett told Ottelini: “[T]hey have just signaled they are only interested in being a transaction based customer. I think you
should reply in kind. Not a time for weakness on our part. Stop writing checks immediately and put them back on list prices asap.” (Emphasis added).

143. The direction Otellini gave his subordinates the next day was consistent with Barrett’s advice. Intel should make clear to Dell that if Dell offered any AMD products all of the “mcp” payments Dell received from Intel would be at risk – just as Dell had always feared: “[W]e should be [pre]pared to remove all mcp and related programs. Post haste… then we ought to enter negotiations.”


This is gonna hurt.Bad.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 44
Location: E.U.
That's actually the most interesting article I've read in a long time, that attorney makes a fair point. On a side note things didn't really change that much since 2007:)


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 829
Location: Great white north
Yet another ambitious state AG hopes to launch his political career with a high profile
and lurid drawn lawsuit against a rich and successful corporation with few operations
in that state but a few competitors with a large or growing presence.

Anyone reading the filing should keep in mind what is in quotes and what is simply the
breathless running narrative much of which could have come from the mouth of a few
AMD executives I could think of.

Good ol' Andy is on a roll padding his little-man-against-giant-evil-corp credentials.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ny-oth ... 2009-10-30

I bet the little prick can almost taste the governor's office.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:20 pm
Posts: 12
Paul DeMone wrote:
Yet another ambitious state AG hopes to launch his political career with a high profile
and lurid drawn lawsuit against a rich and successful corporation with few operations
in that state but a few competitors with a large or growing presence.

Anyone reading the filing should keep in mind what is in quotes and what is simply the
breathless running narrative much of which could have come from the mouth of a few
AMD executives I could think of.

Good ol' Andy is on a roll padding his little-man-against-giant-evil-corp credentials.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ny-oth ... 2009-10-30

I bet the little prick can almost taste the governor's office.



Yup, everyone should ignore Intel's blatant illegal and criminal activities and focus on a conspiracy theory instead.
Here's an idea: go drive your head back in the sand you little bitch.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 720
When did waitressingaza take over Paul Demone's forum account?


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 829
Location: Great white north
Quote:
Yup, everyone should ignore Intel's blatant illegal and criminal activities and focus on a conspiracy theory instead.
Here's an idea:


Funny how the NY AG is ignoring the gross violation of fiduciary duty by the
former chairman of Glofo in disclosing insider information directly involving
the spin-out of a subsidiary being financed to the tune of hundreds of millions
of dollars by the taxpayers of NY in favour of attacking legitimate discounting
and co-marketing practices of the company primarily responsible for keeping
the U.S. in the semi game for the last few decades.

Hey genius, next time you are in a grocery store on a hot day and pull a soda
from a cooler ask the store manager who owns the cooler and how he decides
how much shelf space he allocates to each supplier.


Quote:
go drive your head back in the sand you little bitch.


Gosh, I'll really miss charming AMD camp followers like you when Ruiz's wreck
fades into history in a few years. BTW, why don't you move to NY, then your
tax dollars could help fund both Andy's populist jihad against Intel AND subsidize
Glofo's new fab for its rich middle eastern owners. It would be double-barreled
fun time in socialist fan boy heaven.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:29 am
Posts: 126
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Paul DeMone wrote:
Quote:
Yup, everyone should ignore Intel's blatant illegal and criminal activities and focus on a conspiracy theory instead.
Here's an idea:


Funny how the NY AG is ignoring the gross violation of fiduciary duty by the
former chairman of Glofo in disclosing insider information directly involving
the spin-out of a subsidiary being financed to the tune of hundreds of millions
of dollars by the taxpayers of NY in favour of attacking legitimate discounting
and co-marketing practices of the company primarily responsible for keeping
the U.S. in the semi game for the last few decades.



Gee, I didn't realize it was legitimate to discount your products over 100% of their cost. Usually we call that "dumping" and when foreign companies try to do that in the US market we usually prosecute them. Are you saying since Intel is a US company it's OK?

Quote:
Hey genius, next time you are in a grocery store on a hot day and pull a soda
from a cooler ask the store manager who owns the cooler and how he decides
how much shelf space he allocates to each supplier.


Funny, all the grocery stores around here carry both Coke and Pepsi products. And most reports show that Coke and Pepsi have about equal market share. So you're trying to compare an 85/15 Intel/AMD market to a 50/50 market. Seems rather disingenuous. Of course, I saw that some fast food chains like Taco Bell and KFC only carried Pepsi but oh wait, that's because these chains were owned by Pepsico. Big shock. Does Intel own Dell? (Perhaps in all but name...)


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 44
Location: E.U.
Paul DeMone wrote:
Hey genius, next time you are in a grocery store on a hot day and pull a soda
from a cooler ask the store manager who owns the cooler and how he decides
how much shelf space he allocates to each supplier.



fair point but think how much of influence you will have by convincing top 5 retailers and manufacturers in the US to use your product on a exclusive basis. Top 5 retailers like wal-mart account for maybe 30% of the overall market(I know wal-mart accounts for 11% according to CNN, I kind of made up the 30% here) while top 5 PC makers account for 78.6% which is achieving a dominant position as far as law goes.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 44
Location: E.U.
hyc wrote:
Does Intel own Dell? (Perhaps in all but name...)


they have a 50/50 share with microsoft;)


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 829
Location: Great white north
hyc wrote:

Gee, I didn't realize it was legitimate to discount your products over 100% of their cost. Usually we call that "dumping" and when foreign companies try to do that in the US market we usually prosecute them. Are you saying since Intel is a US company it's OK?


I haven't seen any evidence that Intel ever sold processors below their cost of manufacture.
For that matter how would you, Neelie Kroes, or Andy Cuomo know Intel's effective processed
wafer cost, final test yield, packaging and test costs, etc, actually are for any given product?
We know that Intel was consistently profitably with enviably GMs despite claims of billions in
loyalty payments supposedly going our the door during AMD's heyday with Opteron.

However I am curious about the claim that AMD offered a million processors free to HP. That
would definitely be selling below cost.


Quote:
And most reports show that Coke and Pepsi have about equal market share.


Depends on the channel and the market. For example Coke holds about 75% of the U.S.
market for fountain sales.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:22 pm
Posts: 105
> I haven't seen any evidence that Intel ever sold processors below their cost of manufacture.

Thanks for re-iterating that you are not working in the x86 business, and as such are not
qualified to actually comment on these matters.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 720
Paul DeMone wrote:
However I am curious about the claim that AMD offered a million processors free to HP. That
would definitely be selling below cost..


Yes, but therefore not predatory pricing, which is what is illegal in most place. Let me give you a definition and then you tell me if this fits AMD offer for free cpu's to HP or intels practice visa vis Dell (and pretty much every other oem):

Quote:
Predatory Pricing
A deliberate strategy, usually by a dominant firm, of driving competitors out
of the market
by setting very low prices or selling below the firm’s incremental
costs of producing the output (often equated for practical purposes with average
variable costs). Once the predator has successfully driven out existing competitors
and deterred entry of new firms, it can raise prices and earn higher profits.

Yeah I think AMD is in big trouble for having done that lol.

BTW the EU and Japanese (and AFIK Korean) attorney generals that prosecuted intel for monopoly abuse were and are not running for election. I guess they are all just AMD fanboys and fangirls for convicting intel.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:55 pm
Posts: 829
Location: Great white north
P4man wrote:
BTW the EU and Japanese (and AFIK Korean) attorney generals that prosecuted intel for monopoly abuse were and are not running for election. I guess they are all just AMD fanboys and fangirls for convicting intel.


AMD has significant operations in Germany, a country with a lot of EU influence. Add to
structural protectionism a billion and a half in extraterritorial taxation ("Intel - sponsor
of the EU taxpayer" - Kroes) and bob's your uncle.

Major Japanese and Korean semicos were the subject of price fixing investigations and
charges by U.S. regulators in the early part of this decade. Those two countries went
after Intel in retaliation and the U.S. feds backed off.

Don't like what I have to say about Cuomo's blatantly political stunt then listen to a former
commissioner and vice-chairman of the U.S. International Trade Commission has to say:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/05/intel- ... r=yahootix

Cuomo's Self-Serving Suit Against Intel

Most government officials take oaths of office, swearing to uphold the Constitution, the laws of their state and to serve and protect the people. And most government officials think of what they do in just those terms. But what gets headlines all too often are things that protect no one and serve only the interests of the official and a select circle of supporters.

So it is with New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's announcement of his decision to file suit against Intel Corp. ( INTC - news - people ) in Delaware on charges that Intel competed unfairly against rival chipmaker AMD. It's easy to see why this is good for Mr. Cuomo. An AMD subsidiary, Globalfoundries, happens to be building a $4.2 billion production facility in Saratoga County, N.Y. Cuomo's high-profile suit will be applauded by locals and remembered when he runs for governor as the man who protected New York jobs. Anything that slows down a more successful competitor is sure to help AMD, which is why AMD already had filed a suit against Intel in Delaware on the very same allegations and has pressed government officials around the world to take on its cause against Intel. But what's in this for New Yorkers who won't be working for AMD?


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 720
We know Paul, intel did nothing wrong, they merely competed on merit with their superior netburst products. No one wanted those crappy AMD products, not even for free.
Really. We believe you. All these allegations are just fabrications of AMD fanboys and intel haters robbing intel's fair profits. Us mere mortals can not read all those published statements or verdicts, we would not understand without your interpretation.

Now then lets hope those evil AMD execs burn in hell for all the damage they caused to consumers and the market distortion they created. Let them pay back all their illegally obtained profits from selling chips for free and losing money on insider trading. Lets put them in jail before they are even charged, that's real justice.


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 Post subject: Re: NY attorney general files antitrust lawsuit against Intel!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 126
Amazing how Paul DeMone always finds some excuse that makes intel's wrongdoings somehow not wrong any more. It doesn't matter if there are hard evidence showing clear predatory pricing techniques used by intel, which is afaik still illegal in US . Also,all those countries that already had convicted intel for similar wrongdoings were biased one way or the other and there was nothing wrong with intel's business practices in all those countries.Yeah,exactly-> fat chance.


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