Aceshardware

jack · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 359

Technically, Itanium also was always "on schedule"....

There were several roadmaps in last Autumn that showed 2.6GHz Phenom X4 scheduled for Q4 2007.

For example:
"Ever wonder why we didn't have an early look at Phenom like we did for every Core 2 processor before the embargo lifted? Not only are CPUs scarce, but AMD itself didn't really know what would be launching until the last moment.

At first Phenom was going to launch at either 2.8GHz or 2.6GHz; then we got word that it would be either 2.6GHz or 2.4GHz. A week ago the story was 2.4GHz and lower, then a few days ago we got the final launch frequencies: 2.2GHz and 2.3GHz."
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3153

Phenom · Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 4

jack wrote:

Technically, Itanium also was always "on schedule"....

There were several roadmaps in last Autumn that showed 2.6GHz Phenom X4 scheduled for Q4 2007.

…non official. Everything else is just hear-day "investigation" of the yellow web IT press… and yes that includes Anand's lamenting over initial K10 frequencies in a range of 2.6-2.8 GHz! :roll:

jack · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 359

Phenom wrote:

jack wrote:

Technically, Itanium also was always "on schedule"....

There were several roadmaps in last Autumn that showed 2.6GHz Phenom X4 scheduled for Q4 2007.

…non official. Everything else is just hear-day "investigation" of the yellow web IT press… and yes that includes Anand's lamenting over initial K10 frequencies in a range of 2.6-2.8 GHz! :roll:

That's the point. Officially, nothing is ever delayed, also different version of Itanium were "officially" on schedule.

Anand didn't make those launch frequencies by himself, he was simply relaying information that AMD gave to him.

By the way, did you forget that AMD made a lot of presentations last Autumn with 2.5GHz Barcelona results (there were some SPEC submissions also) and even Johan mentioned in his article, that 2.5GHz Barcelona will be launched in Q4 2007. But I guess, "officially" there is no delay in 2.5GHz Barcelona shipments....

Johan · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 162 Location: Belgium

jack wrote:

Phenom wrote:

jack wrote:

Technically, Itanium also was always "on schedule"....

There were several roadmaps in last Autumn that showed 2.6GHz Phenom X4 scheduled for Q4 2007.

…non official. Everything else is just hear-day "investigation" of the yellow web IT press… and yes that includes Anand's lamenting over initial K10 frequencies in a range of 2.6-2.8 GHz! :roll:

That's the point. Officially, nothing is ever delayed, also different version of Itanium were "officially" on schedule.

Anand didn't make those launch frequencies by himself, he was simply relaying information that AMD gave to him.

By the way, did you forget that AMD made a lot of presentations last Autumn with 2.5GHz Barcelona results (there were some SPEC submissions also) and even Johan mentioned in his article, that 2.5GHz Barcelona will be launched in Q4 2007. But I guess, "officially" there is no delay in 2.5GHz Barcelona shipments....

To be fair, I should have added that AMD didn't expect mass shipments of 2.5 GHz in Q1 (but that was made clear just after the article). The plan was to give the OEMs a lot of 2.5 GHz in Q4. Well, that is what AMD (different people) said to us.

Now the official line is 2.5 GHz SE (120W) in "late" Q2. Which is disappointing of course.

Groo · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 178

[quote="Johan"]

jack wrote:

Now the official line is 2.5 GHz SE (120W) in "late" Q2. Which is disappointing of course.

That 'official' line is way way way off. Think next week or before for a more realistic time schedule.

-Charlie

LiamC · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 82

9750 & 9850 BE on TR

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14424

9850 -> 2.9GHz with a smidge more V.
9850 ~ Q6600, wins some, loses some

jack · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 359

[quote="Groo"]

Johan wrote:

jack wrote:

Now the official line is 2.5 GHz SE (120W) in "late" Q2. Which is disappointing of course.

That 'official' line is way way way off. Think next week or before for a more realistic time schedule.

-Charlie

Keep in mind that we were talking about availability of 2.5GHz Barcelona and not Phenom X4. Are you sure that 2.5GHz Barcelona will be available next week?

jack · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 359

LiamC wrote:

9750 & 9850 BE on TR

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14424

9850 -> 2.9GHz with a smidge more V.
9850 ~ Q6600, wins some, loses some

Q6600 seems to win more CPU limited benchmarks in that test.

Xbitlabs was able to overclock 9850 to 2.7GHz with raising voltage from 1.3V to 1.4V: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-x4-9850.html

However, in that becnhmark suite 9850 lost to Q6600 in every benchmark and Q9300 was even more ahead.

Johan · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 162 Location: Belgium

jack wrote:

LiamC wrote:

9750 & 9850 BE on TR

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14424

9850 -> 2.9GHz with a smidge more V.
9850 ~ Q6600, wins some, loses some

Q6600 seems to win more CPU limited benchmarks in that test.

Xbitlabs was able to overclock 9850 to 2.7GHz with raising voltage from 1.3V to 1.4V: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-x4-9850.html

However, in that becnhmark suite 9850 lost to Q6600 in every benchmark and Q9300 was even more ahead.

I really would like to understand the effects of the cache a bit more. Considering that each core in Barcelona has only a 512 KB cache before it has to go to a slow L3, I can imagine that is far from optimal for most desktop apps. Even Shangai will not change this. Penryn with it's huge low latency L2-cache is really ideal for desktop apps.

Pjotr · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 159

Johan wrote:

I really would like to understand the effects of the cache a bit more. Considering that each core in Barcelona has only a 512 KB cache before it has to go to a slow L3, I can imagine that is far from optimal for most desktop apps. Even Shangai will not change this. Penryn with it's huge low latency L2-cache is really ideal for desktop apps.

And where would that put Nehalem, going away from the big L2 to smaller L2 with a separate L3 instead? Perhaps it is a better design when you are not limited by a FSB.

jack · Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Posts: 359

Pjotr wrote:

Johan wrote:

I really would like to understand the effects of the cache a bit more. Considering that each core in Barcelona has only a 512 KB cache before it has to go to a slow L3, I can imagine that is far from optimal for most desktop apps. Even Shangai will not change this. Penryn with it's huge low latency L2-cache is really ideal for desktop apps.

And where would that put Nehalem, going away from the big L2 to smaller L2 with a separate L3 instead? Perhaps it is a better design when you are not limited by a FSB.

That will depend on L3 latency. However, based on previous designs, it should be quite decent. Certainly better than Barcelona's L3 which latency is quite horrible.

Does anyone remember L3 latency of Tulsa?

Johan · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 162 Location: Belgium

jack wrote:

Pjotr wrote:

Johan wrote:

I really would like to understand the effects of the cache a bit more. Considering that each core in Barcelona has only a 512 KB cache before it has to go to a slow L3, I can imagine that is far from optimal for most desktop apps. Even Shangai will not change this. Penryn with it's huge low latency L2-cache is really ideal for desktop apps.

And where would that put Nehalem, going away from the big L2 to smaller L2 with a separate L3 instead? Perhaps it is a better design when you are not limited by a FSB.

That will depend on L3 latency. However, based on previous designs, it should be quite decent. Certainly better than Barcelona's L3 which latency is quite horrible.

Does anyone remember L3 latency of Tulsa?

Yes...
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2897&p=2

109 cycles.

Groo · Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 178

jack wrote:

Keep in mind that we were talking about availability of 2.5GHz Barcelona and not Phenom X4. Are you sure that 2.5GHz Barcelona will be available next week?

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant the core. Sorry about that.

-Charlie

EaS · Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 8

Some of the first details on IPC gains that AMD expects going from Barcelona to Shanghai:

"AMD is expecting, clock for clock, 45nm Deneb based Phenom cores to offer up to 15% more performance."

Reminds me of something:

So essentialy AMD expects Shanghai to deliver the same performance improvement as K8 -> K10.

Alberto · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 111 Location: Italy

EaS wrote:

Some of the first details on IPC gains that AMD expects going from Barcelona to Shanghai:

"AMD is expecting, clock for clock, 45nm Deneb based Phenom cores to offer up to 15% more performance."

Reminds me of something:

So essentialy AMD expects Shanghai to deliver the same performance improvement as K8 -> K10.

Nah! they are saying that Shanghai will have a 15% better performance/watt figure, they always refer to this parameter lately.
There are voices of a "up to" 10% more IPC clock to clock, but you know that it will be a mixed bag, especially in a cpu with an IMC; i believe in a boost in server applications.

Alberto.