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AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press
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Paul DeMone



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:06 am    Post subject: AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press Reply with quote

Or at least according to remarks quoted in this article:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2181150,00.asp

Was there any frustration on the company's part, or on your part, that Barcelona did not come to the market sooner?

Absolutely.

There is nothing that we would have been more excited about than getting it out earlier. But we are not making excuses. This is a damn difficult thing to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. This is the first time that any company in the world has put 600 million transistors on a chip—and you can round that off and say it's a billion.


Even leaving aside non-MPU chips like DRAM this claim is clearly false.
Intel shipped Madison 9M (592m transistors) nearly three years ago,
and Montecito (1720m transistors) and Tulsa (1328m transistors) over
a year ago.
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redpriest



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press Reply with quote

Paul DeMone wrote:
Or at least according to remarks quoted in this article:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2181150,00.asp

Was there any frustration on the company's part, or on your part, that Barcelona did not come to the market sooner?

Absolutely.

There is nothing that we would have been more excited about than getting it out earlier. But we are not making excuses. This is a damn difficult thing to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. This is the first time that any company in the world has put 600 million transistors on a chip—and you can round that off and say it's a billion.


Even leaving aside non-MPU chips like DRAM this claim is clearly false.
Intel shipped Madison 9M (592m transistors) nearly three years ago,
and Montecito (1720m transistors) and Tulsa (1328m transistors) over
a year ago.


I think you can make the assumption he was talking about x86 cpus.
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TacoBell



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press Reply with quote

redpriest wrote:
Paul DeMone wrote:
Or at least according to remarks quoted in this article:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2181150,00.asp

Was there any frustration on the company's part, or on your part, that Barcelona did not come to the market sooner?

Absolutely.

There is nothing that we would have been more excited about than getting it out earlier. But we are not making excuses. This is a damn difficult thing to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. This is the first time that any company in the world has put 600 million transistors on a chip—and you can round that off and say it's a billion.


Even leaving aside non-MPU chips like DRAM this claim is clearly false.
Intel shipped Madison 9M (592m transistors) nearly three years ago,
and Montecito (1720m transistors) and Tulsa (1328m transistors) over
a year ago.


I think you can make the assumption he was talking about x86 cpus.

What is the ISA of Tulsa?
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redpriest



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press Reply with quote

TacoBell wrote:
redpriest wrote:
Paul DeMone wrote:
Or at least according to remarks quoted in this article:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2181150,00.asp

Was there any frustration on the company's part, or on your part, that Barcelona did not come to the market sooner?

Absolutely.

There is nothing that we would have been more excited about than getting it out earlier. But we are not making excuses. This is a damn difficult thing to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. This is the first time that any company in the world has put 600 million transistors on a chip—and you can round that off and say it's a billion.


Even leaving aside non-MPU chips like DRAM this claim is clearly false.
Intel shipped Madison 9M (592m transistors) nearly three years ago,
and Montecito (1720m transistors) and Tulsa (1328m transistors) over
a year ago.


I think you can make the assumption he was talking about x86 cpus.

What is the ISA of Tulsa?


x86, obviously.
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JPack



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 5
Location: North of 49th parallel

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's even funnier is that their own material says 463 mio transistors. Maybe they should have rounded it further to include anything attached to Barcelona, like the RDDR2, southbridge, and perhaps the GPU.

Quote:
Q: What’s the die size and how many transistors does it use?

A: The die size is 285mm2. The processor uses approximately 463 million transistors.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_15251_15260,00.htm
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Alberto



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 111
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: AMD CEO Ruiz straight out lies to the press Reply with quote

Paul DeMone wrote:
Or at least according to remarks quoted in this article:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2181150,00.asp

Was there any frustration on the company's part, or on your part, that Barcelona did not come to the market sooner?

Absolutely.

There is nothing that we would have been more excited about than getting it out earlier. But we are not making excuses. This is a damn difficult thing to do, as I'm sure you can imagine. This is the first time that any company in the world has put 600 million transistors on a chip—and you can round that off and say it's a billion.


Even leaving aside non-MPU chips like DRAM this claim is clearly false.
Intel shipped Madison 9M (592m transistors) nearly three years ago,
and Montecito (1720m transistors) and Tulsa (1328m transistors) over
a year ago.


Don't worry.
Ruiz has another job on track. A company that loses an half billion dollar /quarter during the whole 2007, it cannot accept a similar personage in 2008 ;-)

Alberto.
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Paul DeMone



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, it looks like Ruiz lied twice in that interview.

According to a lot of accounts, such as this:

http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=blog&blog_id=400000040&blog_post_id=1400006940

ISSCC: Processor Plethora, Part Two

[..]

Built on a 65 nm low-k SOI process with 11 copper interconnect layers, Barcelona contains 463 million transistors and has a 283 mm2 die size.


Barcelona uses 463m transistors, not 600m as Ruiz claimed (let
alone the 67% rounding up to a billion).

Usually one needs a full generation process shrink to double the
number of transistors on a given size die but Ruiz can more than
double it with only his big mouth. ;-)
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Pjotr



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or there was a Freudian slip and he was talking about a future 45 nm K10? :?
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Paul DeMone



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjotr wrote:
Or there was a Freudian slip and he was talking about a future 45 nm K10? :?


An interesting hypothesis. An extra ~137m transistors corresponds to
about an extra 2 MB of L3 cache bringing the total to 4 MB.

But IIRC rumours/roadmaps etc give the 45 nm shrunk K10 6MB of L3
which is closer to 750m transistors.

Here is another hypothesis - Barcelona was originally going to have
a 4 MB L3 but die area/yield/cost etc considerations forced it on a die
size diet during development.

Even if Ruiz was thinking of a different chip than what AMD announced
on Monday his claim about being first to 600m transistors is still badly
wrong. He's really taking chances in today's Sarbanes-Oxley world of
little tolerance for deceit by corporate officers. He must give his handlers
and AMD corporate counsel fits whenever he goes off sheet.
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powervolume



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Separate from the original topic, what is the transistor count when disregarding cache for Montecito, Tigerton, K8 Rev F, and Barcelona?
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thibs



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't stop myself thinking that appart from the probably right remark from Paul (I mean, as far as I can judge he's probably right), that kind of remark and the way it was presented seems more like Paranoid/Who?/Alberto way of trolling.

I thought you were capable of smarter than that, Paul.
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Paul DeMone



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thibs wrote:
I can't stop myself thinking that appart from the probably right remark from Paul (I mean, as far as I can judge he's probably right), that kind of remark and the way it was presented seems more like Paranoid/Who?/Alberto way of trolling.

I thought you were capable of smarter than that, Paul.


In other words you don't like what I said about Ruiz but given that
you couldn't attack or refute it on any factual grounds or using logic
or reasoned argument you decided instead to make your primitive
unarticulated objection known with a simple personal attack.

Thank you for contributing so much value added to this forum.
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Maui



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he simply means its a rather trite point. Compared to other misleading or incorrect statements he or AMD has made, or more generally compared to the rest of AMD's problems its just not that important. Regardless of the factual correctness of the transistor count, his basic point was that Barcelona was not simple to create and I think we can all probably agree that is true whether or not the underlying assertion of transistor count supremacy is correct or the resulting product is a good one.

Of all the ways one could beat up on AMD right now, its seems there are far more meaningful ways to do so...
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Paul DeMone



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maui wrote:
I think he simply means its a rather trite point.
..
Of all the ways one could beat up on AMD right now, its seems there are far more meaningful ways to do so...


I disagree. The CEO of a corporation is an important role that's both
highly visible outwards (to customers, investors, and partners - both
current and potential) and inwards*. Ruiz's free and easy way with
such easily refuted deceitful comments IMO casts significant doubt
on his personal integrity. That, in combination with recent high level
resignations, should be an concern to those who would like to see
AMD continue as a viable competitor in the x86 MPU market. Keep
in mind AMD's current pile of borrowed operating capital is rapidly
being depleted and it will soon have to return cap in hand back to
Wall St for more. It would be best in that scenario not to have a CEO
with ongoing truthfulness issues. Some of those guys might not yet
have forgotten AMD's fantasy filled gab fest last December.

*Is Ruiz setting the standard for truthfulness demanded of other
AMD executives?

http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=42303

Why was Barcelona late? It wasn't, apparently. Anyone who thought the chip was to launch back in March or even before must be a bit dim. Or listened to what they were being told and forgot to take it with a pinch of salt.

"It wasn't late," AMD corporate veep Alberto Macchi told me with a straight face.

He claimed the launch was in line with AMD's announcements on the matter. Back in the main hall, AMD's director of process technology, David Greenlaw, had earlier said the chip was late because it brought with it, "complicated design issues". So it was late then? Well, yes. Why is Macchi wasting my time? That'll be because he's a big cheese who obviously feels himself above the need to be frank with members of the press, I suspect.


http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,62031143,00.htm

The "complicated" design that AMD chose for Barcelona, its first quad-core server processor, caused more than six months of delays before the chip was ready, CEO Hector Ruiz told the San Jose Mercury News.
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someoneelse



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul DeMone wrote:
... That, in combination with recent high level
resignations, should be an concern to those who would like to see
AMD continue as a viable competitor in the x86 MPU market.


You being the principle champion of those who are interested in seeing AMD continue as a viable competitor?
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