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 Post subject: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:38 pm
Posts: 668
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/18/technol ... /index.htm

A bit surprising considering that HP is biggest PC manufacturer and they bought Palm only a year ago.


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 953
Also quite interesting is the reason given. "The PC market is changing, the tablet effect is real". I dont think that should be interpreted narrowly like "PCs without keyboard", but more broadly meaning computing devices that are not traditional x86+windows machines. Maybe its time to revisit some of those claims made in the "ARM, is this the wave of the future" thread?


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:38 pm
Posts: 668
Yes, reasons are quite interesting: "tablet effect is real, so we must dump our tablet unit". I think the real reason is that HP simply can't be cost-effective in the consumer market, and can't compete well with Asian companies. PC market is already very low margin, for now tablet manufacturers enjoy high margins, but that will change in the future as hardware and software will be more standardized and competition increases.

Quote:
Maybe its time to revisit some of those claims made in the "ARM, is this the wave of the future" thread?


Yes, at least the year should be changed in "ARM will become viable alternative to x86 PCs in 2010" prediction :)


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
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jack wrote:
Yes, reasons are quite interesting: "tablet effect is real, so we must dump our tablet unit".


Its more like, since we cant compete in the non traditional windows+x86 consumer markets, we better dump our entire consumer unit, including PCs as its becoming the same thing. PC margins have been razor thin for one or two decades, that is nothing new.

Quote:
Yes, at least the year should be changed in "ARM will become viable alternative to x86 PCs in 2010" prediction :)


Seeing how tablets have all but killed netbooks and are eating into notebook sales, ARM seems to have been a viable alternative for some time.


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 119
P4man wrote:
Seeing how tablets have all but killed netbooks and are eating into notebook sales, ARM seems to have been a viable alternative for some time.


Netbook sales are being killed by Intel's own complacency with Atom. Why would you buy a new netbook in 2011 if your 2008 netbook suits your fine? The improvements have been quite minimal (and in some respects the netbook offer has even regressed, for example it's becoming very difficult to find a netbook with a small SSD rather than a big slow hot HDD).

I don't really think netbooks and tablets are the same market, even if there's some overlap. I can't imagine myself taking notes, typing in a terminal, let alone editing some code on a tablet's virtual keyboard.

Of course that has nothing to do with ARM really. A good ARM netbook with good Linux compatibility (and a SSD) would be great for people like me.


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
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Have a look at the asus transformer. Its no surprise its selling 400.000 units per month, its about the only "tablet" you can type on.


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 119
Yep the Transformer looks quite nice. Only problem is to run another Linux than Android.
Also, apparently the full combo is 1.3kg, which means not lighter than a netbook (but far better battery life).


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 953
Apparently ubuntu runs reasonably well on the transformer, but there are still some issues to be resolved:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthr ... ?t=1163082

Would be nice if some OEM saw the light and actually shipped a similar device with ubuntu, but halas, they see android and ios sells on phones and tablets, so they sell android on clamshells even if it doesnt make a lot of sense at this point, and ubuntu would make it so much more productive. Oh well, there is always XDA :).


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 119
Well, I don't care about Ubuntu being actually shipped on the device, as long as it installs well :)
However, ironically the install procedure seems to require Windows...


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 pm
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I dont think it needs windows. It does need ADB (android debug bridge) which requires drivers on windows, I have no idea if you need device specific drivers on ubuntu or other linuxes to make ADB work, or whether its part of the kernel.


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:10 pm
Posts: 370
jack wrote:
Yes, reasons are quite interesting: "tablet effect is real, so we must dump our tablet unit". I think the real reason is that HP simply can't be cost-effective in the consumer market, and can't compete well with Asian companies. PC market is already very low margin, for now tablet manufacturers enjoy high margins, but that will change in the future as hardware and software will be more standardized and competition increases.


Or, read it as "PC market are shriking and there is nothing we can do about it, let's sell the PC unit while it still has some value".


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:38 pm
Posts: 668
P4man wrote:
jack wrote:
Yes, reasons are quite interesting: "tablet effect is real, so we must dump our tablet unit".


Its more like, since we cant compete in the non traditional windows+x86 consumer markets, we better dump our entire consumer unit, including PCs as its becoming the same thing. PC margins have been razor thin for one or two decades, that is nothing new.


PC margins weren't this low in 2001 (let alone in 1991). The world has also changed a lot, now China has overtaken US in terms of PC sales for example. How much brand advantage HP has against Chinese or other Asian brands in China and rest of the Asia?

Quote:
Seeing how tablets have all but killed netbooks and are eating into notebook sales, ARM seems to have been a viable alternative for some time.


Tablet have their own market. ARM becoming a viable alternative would mean that people would only use ARM devices to do their computing. How many people who own tablets don't own own x86 laptops or desktops?


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:38 pm
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EduardoS wrote:
jack wrote:
Yes, reasons are quite interesting: "tablet effect is real, so we must dump our tablet unit". I think the real reason is that HP simply can't be cost-effective in the consumer market, and can't compete well with Asian companies. PC market is already very low margin, for now tablet manufacturers enjoy high margins, but that will change in the future as hardware and software will be more standardized and competition increases.


Or, read it as "PC market are shriking and there is nothing we can do about it, let's sell the PC unit while it still has some value".


Since when PC market is shrinking?


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:25 pm
Posts: 285
Walking away from a few more vestiges of the manufacturing base (not that they haven't already offshored most of it).

Thanks goodness for Intel in Arizona, Oregon, and New Mexico (and AMD, in NY).


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 Post subject: Re: HP to exit PC and handheld/tablet business
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:50 am
Posts: 9
jack wrote:
Tablet have their own market. ARM becoming a viable alternative would mean that people would only use ARM devices to do their computing. How many people who own tablets don't own own x86 laptops or desktops?


I know a few of them, now the demographic is fairly concentrated, friends of high school age family members.

They have a console for "real" games, a high end phone (not that the phone component is actually used much) and now tablets.

The only issue I can see is when they go off to university. I just cannot see tablets being used to create a 50 page paper. Google docs and a wi-fi printer is acceptable, but the tablet keypad is too small for me to use for more than a page or so, it may just be my age though.

It may not be a very profitable demographic (by total dollars) at the moment, but give it 5 to 10 years.


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