Aceshardware Forum Index Aceshardware
(not so) temporary home for the aceshardware community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The stuff of nightmares (3rdin the series from the Economist

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Aceshardware Forum Index -> Off Topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
foo



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: The stuff of nightmares (3rdin the series from the Economist Reply with quote

http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9909351

The stuff of nightmares
Oct 4th 2007
From The Economist print edition

Judges and parliamentarians are restraining the zeal of governments who want a free hand to fight terror. The third in our series

HAULED before a military tribunal at the American naval base in Guantánamo Bay, the detainee, picked up in Afghanistan, asked why he was being held. For associating with a member of al-Qaeda, he was told. Give me his name, the detainee demanded. The tribunal's president said he didn't know it. Nor did any of the tribunal's other members. “How can I respond to this?” the detainee cried before being taken back to his cell to continue his detention, perhaps for the rest of his life.

This Kafkaesque story was related this summer by Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, in support of a bill he and Patrick Leahy, the committee's Democratic chairman, were co-sponsoring to restore habeas corpus rights to Guantánamo's detainees. Most have been held for nearly six years without charge, without access to a lawyer or any indication of when, if ever, they might be released. The Pentagon has said they could be held for the duration of the (open-ended) “global war on terror”.

Guantánamo has become a byword for the Bush administration's gung-ho reaction to the terror attacks of September 2001. In Britain, too, the government has sought new powers to tackle Islamist terrorism, even if these seemed to offend ancient liberties. But the story is not over yet. It could turn into a tale not of liberties being frayed, but of democracy's underlying strength. For, in both America and Britain, the doctrine of the balance of powers has passed a test. The executive branch made a grab for more authority; but courts and legislators have tried hard to push back.

Freedom from arbitrary arrest and detention, coupled with the right to challenge it in an independent court—known as habeas corpus in common-law countries like Britain and America—are among the civilised world's most sacred and ancient liberties, going back to medieval times. But these days, there is more talk of pre-emption and “preventive detention”, even in democracies. “You can't allow somebody to commit the crime before you detain them,” said Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, when asked about America's secret “renditions” programme for suspected terrorists.

What the public safety requires
Under the American constitution, habeas corpus may not be suspended except when “in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it”. And only very rarely has it been suspended. Abraham Lincoln did so during the civil war, but was rebuked by the courts. And the internment of 120,000 people of Japanese descent, two-thirds of them American citizens, in the second world war, was lawful but is now viewed as a shameful misdeed.

Britain likewise suspended habeas corpus in the second world war to allow it to detain around 1,000 suspected fascists. All were released after three years. During the “troubles” in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s, nearly 2,000 suspected extremists were interned. But the practice was scrapped in 1975, as it was clearly fuelling support for terrorism—just as Guantánamo is doing now.

George Bush chose the American naval base in Cuba as the detention centre for those picked up in his war on terror because officials believed—falsely as it turned out—Guantánamo was beyond the reach of domestic and international law. If the detainees had been held on American soil, they could have claimed the same rights as ordinary American citizens, including a right to due process, to apply for asylum and to sue the American government for any alleged wrongs.

From the outset, the 775 or so men and boys (some as young as 13) sent by Mr Bush to Guantánamo were branded as guilty. Donald Rumsfeld, the former defence secretary, described them as “hard-core, well-trained terrorists” who, if released, would simply “return to the fight and continue to kill innocent men, women and children”. The Pentagon says that all were “caught in the battlefield”. But many were given to the Americans by Afghan bounty-seekers; others were seized as far away as Bosnia and Zambia.

Mr Bush claims that, under international law, parties to an armed conflict may hold enemy combatants “for the duration of active hostilities”. This is correct. Nor is “unlawful enemy combatant” a term he invented. In the Geneva Conventions, it describes a foe who is not a member of official armed forces or an organised resistance movement, does not carry arms openly, wears no uniform or other distinctive sign, and refuses to heed the laws of war. As such, he fails to qualify for the rights of a prisoner of war. But, contrary to what the administration first claimed, he is entitled to some protections, including humane treatment and, if charged, to a fair trial by a “regularly constituted court”.

But is America's war on terror a real war in the legal sense? If not, then the detainees should be treated as ordinary criminal suspects. This is the path that most European countries have chosen. Even if it could be deemed a real war, it is clearly unlike an ordinary state conflict: it has neither a definable end nor even an identifiable enemy with whom to sue for peace. It could last for decades.

Meanwhile, dozens, perhaps hundreds, of detainees are apparently to be left to rot in their cages—if not in Guantánamo, which Mr Bush says he wants to close—then somewhere else. America has also engaged in so-called “extraordinary rendition”—the abduction of suspected terrorists to face not justice, but harsh interrogation, perhaps torture, in a third country. Up to 100 nameless “high-value” suspects are believed to have been seized by CIA agents and then transferred to secret jails, some never to resurface. Around 15 have recently been transferred to Guantánamo, where they may or may not face trial. But most of the 330-odd detainees remaining at the camp may never be charged or tried. The Pentagon says it hopes eventually to put up to 80 detainees on trial for war crimes by special military commissions. Even if acquitted, they may still be held as enemy combatants for the rest of the “war”.

In Britain, all renditions have been outlawed since a Court of Appeal ruling in 1999 overturned the conviction of an Irish Republican, Peter Mullen, who had been spirited back to Britain from Zimbabwe. His abduction was described by the court as a “blatant and extremely serious failure to adhere to the rule of law”.

Britain has eroded liberties in other ways. Immediately after the September 11th attacks, the government brought in a law allowing it to hold indefinitely and without charge any foreigner deemed a national security risk—on the simple say-so of the home secretary. To do this, it had to opt out of parts of the European Convention on Human Rights, as is permitted “in time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation”. None of the 45 other signatories has deemed such a step necessary.

Belmarsh prison in London, where most terror suspects were held, was dubbed “Britain's Guantánamo”—a bit unfairly. Britain never claimed to be in the midst of a war or to be holding “unlawful enemy combatants” with no legal rights. Its foreign detainees, totalling no more than 18, always had access to a lawyer and could challenge their detention before an independent tribunal, though they were not allowed to see classified evidence against them. The government said they were not being held indefinitely, just awaiting deportation. But as they could not be sent to their own countries (because they might be tortured), and no other state wanted them, the effect was the same.

The law lords say no
In December 2004 the House of Lords, Britain's highest court, judged this system to be incompatible with the European Convention. For Lord Scott, one of the law lords involved, indefinite detention on undisclosed grounds was “the stuff of nightmares”, reminiscent of a Stalinist regime. The law was duly scrapped. But it was replaced by new powers allowing the home secretary (not a judge) to impose an indefinitely renewable “control order”—including electronic tagging, a ban on phone and internet use, and strict curfews amounting at times to virtual house arrest—on any suspected terrorist, British or foreign.

The new system seems as riddled with problems as the old, and almost as unfair. In its latest report on control orders, in September, the Home Office said three of the 14 people subject to the regime had absconded. Several people have had their orders quashed by judges who again found the measures incompatible with the European Convention. The government has appealed to the House of Lords, which is expected to pronounce later this month.

In the final months of Tony Blair's government, ministers said they were prepared to “take the nuclear option” and opt out of the convention again if the law lords' ruling went against them. That threat has not been repeated by the new prime minister, Gordon Brown. But he may yet try similar moves. He has already announced plans for a new anti-terrorist law—Britain's fifth since 2000. Among his proposals is an extension of the maximum time a suspected terrorist can be held without charge from 28 days, already the longest in the West, to 56 days. Most democracies allow no more than three days. France permits four; Greece six.

But no leader of a Western democracy has obtained a completely free hand in detaining people. America has seen a tug of war between the government and the courts, with many rounds. In June 2004, the Supreme Court ruled that habeas corpus remained available to everyone detained on American soil, unless explicitly suspended. The case involved Yaser Esam Hamdi, an American citizen being held as an unlawful enemy combatant on a naval brig in Virginia. Two years later, in a case involving a Guantánamo detainee, Salim Hamdan, the Supreme Court said the basic protections afforded to all wartime detainees under the Geneva Conventions applied to everyone, even to unlawful enemy combatants outside America.

The court also ruled that Mr Bush had exceeded his authority in setting up, without congressional approval, special military commissions to try some of the Guantánamo detainees. In response, the president pushed through the 2006 Military Commissions Act giving him just such authority. That law also stripped Guantánamo detainees of any vestige of habeas corpus rights, with retroactive effect. This seemed to dash the hopes of hundreds of Guantánamo detainees with challenges pending before American civilian courts. In April, that view appeared to be confirmed when the Supreme Court turned down, without comment, a habeas corpus petition from the above-mentioned Mr Hamdan. But in June it relented, agreeing to hear an almost identical case from another Guantánamo detainee. Many hope the Supreme Court will seize this opportunity to give a view on whether Mr Bush's “war on terror” is a real war.

The legislators strike back
Congress, too, is beginning to show its teeth, particularly now it is under Democratic control. Although Senator Specter's bipartisan bill to restore habeas corpus rights to Guantánamo detainees fell to a Republican filibuster on September 19th, it got the support of 56 senators, including four Republicans. Other bills pending before Congress seek the total closure of Guantánamo with the transfer of the detainees either to their home countries, if they do not present too big a threat and if those countries are willing to take them; or to a military prison in America.

In Britain, too, Parliament has baulked at some of the government's demands. In 2005, when Mr Blair sought to push through a bill raising the time a suspected terrorist could be detained from 14 to 90 days, his backbenchers revolted, eventually settling on the compromise of 28 days, with regular judicial oversight. Some British officials have been looking with envy at civil-law countries like France, where the criminal-justice system allows detention for months, even years, after a suspect has been formally “placed under investigation”, but not yet charged. Police can also continue to interrogate suspects during that time.

But most legal commentators believe that if the French model were copied in this area, an unbearable blow would be dealt to England's common-law system. And despite the fears of civil libertarians, there are still judges and legislators who think that system worth preserving
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JasonB



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: The stuff of nightmares (3rdin the series from the Economist Reply with quote

foo wrote:

Some British officials have been looking with envy at civil-law countries like France, where the criminal-justice system allows detention for months, even years, after a suspect has been formally “placed under investigation”, but not yet charged. Police can also continue to interrogate suspects during that time.


Holy crap! Is that possible in other European countries as well?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
P4man



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK, its not even possible in France. Our Belgian system is almost an exact copy of the French one, and suspects here can be held in custody by the police for 24 hours maximum (in some special cases this can be extended to 48 hours by a judge). After that they have to be charged or released.

I tried looking up how this was different in France, and stumbled upon this:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR210012005

Thats a long list of complaints about the French system (mostly its application), but I don't see there that prisoners could be held for months let alone years without charge. Then again, I didn't read all of it, I glanced over it, but one would if that where true, Amnesty would be all over it (and rightfully so).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lux_interior



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P4man wrote:
Thats a long list of complaints about the French system (mostly its application), but I don't see there that prisoners could be held for months let alone years without charge.


They can't be held *without charge*, but they be can held months (or sometimes years) before trial if there are serious charges against them *and* it is deemed necessary to hold them for security reasons (e.g. because they are thought to be physically dangerous, or suspected of wanting to mess up the inquiry).

Justice in France is reputed for being quite slow because not enough money is thrown into it and the staff (judges, etc.) is overloaded with work. Although there are normally tight procedures for holding people before a trial, sometimes there have been some grave mistakes (a very famous one being the Outreau case some years ago : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outreau_trial ).

(nice to hear you are from Belgium, P4man. I've been often listening to Front 242 lately :-))
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JasonB



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lux_interior wrote:

They can't be held *without charge*, but they be can held months (or sometimes years) before trial if there are serious charges against them *and* it is deemed necessary to hold them for security reasons (e.g. because they are thought to be physically dangerous, or suspected of wanting to mess up the inquiry).


The quote specifically said "“placed under investigation”, but not yet charged".

What you're describing sounds like the normal wait between being charged and the actual trial date, which seems to take way too long everywhere. In Australia, after charges are laid, a preliminary hearing is held in front of a magistrate to determine whether the defendent should be committed to stand trial. I think in the US they have "grand juries" instead that perform a similar role. In either case, it is the court making the decision to hold the suspect, not the police. There is also usually a hearing to decide whether they can be released on bail while waiting for the trial, which may not be granted if the crime is particularly heinous and the magistrate thinks there is a reasonable chance of a conviction.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lux_interior



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JasonB wrote:
The quote specifically said "“placed under investigation”, but not yet charged".

What you're describing sounds like the normal wait between being charged and the actual trial date, which seems to take way too long everywhere.


I'm not expert enough to know what case it is exactly. I think there is a difference between having charges against someone and having actually planned the trial. Sometimes charges are there but the inquiry is not finished yet.
However, in any case, it is a special judge who decides to hold someone before trial ; the police doesn't have that kind of power.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Aceshardware Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB
Hosted by FreeForums.org