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I wouldn't worry too much about global warming. Life literally blooms in the extra heat according to the fossil record.
Yes, if it happens gradually over hundreds of years. Not a few decades. And on the condition you don't chop the rainforest down the size of the Netherlands each year.
Actually, its more or less an instantaneous transformation. The microscopic life blooms to fill its environment first and we eventually see the macroscopic life follow suit. The amount of energy put into the ecosystem is more or less its ultimate limit. The global cooling episodes were likewise devastating to life on earth.
[quote="MadRat"]Actually, its more or less an instantaneous transformation. The microscopic life blooms to fill its environment first and we eventually see the macroscopic life follow suit. The amount of energy put into the ecosystem is more or less its ultimate limit. The global cooling episodes were likewise devastating to life on earth.[/quote]
No, it is not more or less an instantaneous transformation, unless you mean geologic time scales, in which "instantaneous" means "thousands of years."
Nobody is claiming that all life will be destroyed. Global warming will result in climate disruption on an enormous scale. Who cares about "life?" I care about humanity and the ecosystem that supports its rise and continued dominance. Climate disruption will result in economic and political hardship for my descendants and maybe even me.
Humanity will adapt. The fossil record shows that life instantly adapts to expand to the full parameters of its environment. The records point to an increase in the amount of life in the ecosystem when the earth's climate is warmer. The die offs that have been recorded are all from cooling cycles. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Its sad that people believed the politically correct double speak that got us into this financial collapse, let alone listen to the same double speak that guides the forces against global warming. Man cannot and will not make a dent in global warming as the sun is the sole known source of energy that ultimately regulates all life on earth. Poisoning the earth is a bad thing, yes, but heating it up is not within our means of control.
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:33 am Posts: 83 Location: Denmark
MadRat wrote:
Humanity will adapt. The fossil record shows that life instantly adapts to expand to the full parameters of its environment. The records point to an increase in the amount of life in the ecosystem when the earth's climate is warmer. The die offs that have been recorded are all from cooling cycles. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Its sad that people believed the politically correct double speak that got us into this financial collapse, let alone listen to the same double speak that guides the forces against global warming. Man cannot and will not make a dent in global warming as the sun is the sole known source of energy that ultimately regulates all life on earth. Poisoning the earth is a bad thing, yes, but heating it up is not within our means of control.
Double speak and Double speak. As a college of mine put it. "The thing that convinced me that there was something about this global warming thing, was when my father in law, sold his summerhouse at the water. That is putting your money where your mouth is." His father in law is a climate scientist.
I got myself a house on fairly high grounds, in the outskirts of the town where I live. Not so much cause I'm afraid that the seas is rising, but the weather has changed here. And we do now get Texas style rain, which means that we have a lot of flooding in cellars and houses, due to the fact that the sewers and drains simply aren't build for this kind of rain. So in the whole country, counties are starting up project to expand and enhance the sewer systems.
And there are places in where you have made villages on top of old landfills what used to be bogs, where people are realizing that these villages might have to be either abandoned, or have dikes, pumping stations and water reservoirs build on even lower ground. To be able to cope with the changes in rain patterns here.
So here the weather changes are a very real thing here. And the projects for enhancing dikes, sewers etc are also very real.
Its sad that people believed the politically correct double speak that got us into this financial collapse, let alone listen to the same double speak that guides the forces against global warming. .
You seem confused. What got us in to this financial mess was not science, it was politicians bowing to corporate pressure. That same corporate pressure is doing what exactly regarding to global warming?
If anything is sad, its people not seeing the difference between political (double) speak fueled by selfish and usually short term political and corporate interests, and the scientific speak.
[quote="MadRat"]Humanity will adapt. The fossil record shows that life instantly adapts to expand to the full parameters of its environment. The records point to an increase in the amount of life in the ecosystem when the earth's climate is warmer. The die offs that have been recorded are all from cooling cycles. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Its sad that people believed the politically correct double speak that got us into this financial collapse, let alone listen to the same double speak that guides the forces against global warming. Man cannot and will not make a dent in global warming as the sun is the sole known source of energy that ultimately regulates all life on earth. Poisoning the earth is a bad thing, yes, but heating it up is not within our means of control.[/quote]
Doublespeak? I am speaking in real, concrete terms, while you speak entirely in the abstract. What exactly do you think adaptation means?
Two problems. Firstly, you are conflating extinction events with climate disruption. No one is saying that the net amount of generic life on Earth will decrease from climate change in evolutionary timescales (which is measured in thousands to millions of years). Sure, life will adapt, but you seem to completely disregard the reality of what adapting entails - it entails great disruption, and in concrete terms, that disruption for humans will manifest itself as economic and political hardship. "Humans will adapt" is politicallty correct doublespeak - it is completely accurate yet couches hardship in warm, fuzzy language ("adapting" is good, right?). Adaptation only comes through hardship. I suppose you're okay with that as long as it's not hardship you yourself have to endure.
Secondly, your conclusion that humans have no means to control the temperature of the Earth does not follow from the fact that the Sun is the sole source of energy that drives all life (ignoring the possibly negligent fraction if life that derives it's energy from geothermal energy, which is not the result of solar heating). Humans do have the ability to alter the composition of the atmosphere, and the composition of the atmosphere determines how much solar energy is retained. Recall the massive quanities of CFCs we spewed into the upper atmosphere that caused degredation of the protective ozone layer. As CFC use has declined, the ozone layer has recovered. That is good evidence that we do indeed have the ability to alter atmospheric composition.
Actually you seem to be the one that confuses extinctions with climate changes. The global distribution of vegetation has scaled with the near term rise in temperatures, just as less than a century ago we had globally disruptive famine due to a global cooling cycle. Same goes for the middle ages when there was another hot-cold cycle of fluctuating climate patterns that last in the hundreds of years.
Populations of life did not die off wholesale in these smaller global cycles, but the threatened life in the various temperature zones do either move with the climate change or they adapt. In another sixty years people will be worried about the next cool down. Mark my words if you do live long enough to notice.
The cfc threat was mildly debuked by science already. The biggest change in cfc use was driven by patent turnover as much as any other circumstance. Its not like you could have whimsically manufactured those compounds back when they were legal, because a specific chemical company owned the rights to it. And whom owns the replacements? Same company.
The big picture seems to point to social engineering whenever it comes to every generation's "gravest threat known to man". The banking scandal was simply the last big social engineering scam. Global warming is looking every day to be more of the same.
Doing nothing about Global warming is kind of funny.
If you think there is a risk, then preventing it is a smart think to do.
If you think that Global warming is BS, then, trying to improve your energy efficency can not hurt, it create jobs, and has no down turn.
In both case, it is a smart idea to start producing your own electricity.
enphase inverters are around 170$ each, a Sharp 208Watts solar panel is 850$, for 1000$ , you ll produce 180Watts/Hour ...
3 of those solar panels, and my electricity bill went to ZERO. yes!!! for 3000$! (www.ecodirect.com )
After this, a good wind turbine cost 600$ and produce up to 1000Watts ... if you put it at 20 feet or higher ... (All this data is for Santa Clara area)
for 3600$, I am now fully independant, since I did put Batteries between the Turbine and the inverter (with a Charge controler .. 80$) ... add on the top all my light replaced with LEDs, and you are done ...
I only need the grid for heavy appliance, and I make the Watt meter turning the other way around when the wind is strong, or it is sunny :)
Starting next month, with higher wind, I expect to get money from the Santa Clara city Silicon valley power :)
If you have enough income to have this done, it is almost criminal not to do it, I was paying 250$ of electricity in the past ... Now, I run a Core i7 for free! and the rest of the house too!
in 14 months, it will have paid for itself!, and then, it is pure income!
I downloaded the RET Screen program to play around with this weekend. About 3/4 ways through the video tutorial, he does a wind turbine project analysis applying the figure of some carbon tariff per MWH of green power produced.
You can also change the 'carbon equivalent' drop down menu to see the results of the project in terms of acres of forestry etc. I also noticed by changing the drop down menu for country of origin of the grid electricity, the emissions of Co2 per kwh changed. Ireland being much higher than Germany according to RET Screen. The software seems to be used by the World bank etc, to look at ecologically sound project early feasibility analysis.
if you want to check my prototype of what I am using, I exposed the computorized enphase inverter here: http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/publ ... s/f5mP1397 It is one solar panel, for around 1000$ of material .... covering my carbon foot print for my Core i7 Click around and check the features, pretty cool!
The negative spikes are due to me connecting and disconnecting many time the panels to test several.
Very interesting stuff. I remember learning during my last research into inverters there was an online tool for monitoring alright. Most fascinating stuff. I liked this dwelling energy software here:
In another aceshardware thread last night. I know it is set up to deal with the California climate in particular and was developed at UCLA. I installed it last night and it is one serious piece of kit. Very interactive - I hope that sketchup will link into this kind of technology at some stage in the future. Or may already be. You can download other climates though from the American dept energy website and load them into Heed.
Another software someone linked me to is Homer. I haven't installed it yet, but it does come highly recommended.
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