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 Post subject: Solar Technology
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:13 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Ireland
Charles Gay presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SW4rN5oDz8

Some details regarding the state of technology here also:

http://guntherportfolio.com/2009/05/enp ... s-society/

Smaller inverters.

http://www.gogreensolar.com/collections ... o-inverter

Some really good instructional videos here also:

http://www.solarmagic.com/real_world

This is the other end of the spectrum from the micro inverter.

http://www.padcon.de/fileadmin/download ... iner_2.jpg

gareth


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Posts: 82
Who needs PV if you can have CSP ...

http://pesn.com/2008/02/21/9500472_Aben ... lar_plant/
http://www.desertec.org/

cheaper
higher efficiency
easier to build
power generating at night possible

no silicon needed -> build CPUs & RAMs instead ;-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:53 am
Posts: 214
Salts are a good short term solution, but they deteriorate within a couple of years. Everything I've read about salt-based storage is basically a very short term solution because the salts just cannot be evaporated repeatedly without degradation.

If they can overcome that barrier then imagine what you could do with them. Pipeline transportation might even be feasible to transport that warmth from the desert to more useful places like the west coast. That would literally be a boon for the southwestern states.

Heck, a decent salt medium might even give people a use for their old satellite dishes.

One issue with solar energy ideas like this is the use of tracking. You gain about 25% more useful energy with tracking, based on the daily total and that is basically on the beginning and end of the daylight. Throw some clouds in the mix during those parts of the day and your tracking becomes an expensive solution. They are probably better off using panels that are only adjusted for season changes in the sun position, otherwise they sit in a fixed angle each day, than sinking funds into all these sophisticated sun trackers. Adding needless complexity will only turn this project into a money pit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:48 am
Posts: 81
I'm not impressed by solar power right now on a large or small(home) scale. The costs are high either way for a complete system and energy storage is only slowly improving (which wiould make integration of many solar plants easier on the grid, which is another story). Maybe I'm just biased, but I'm for nuclear power.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:20 pm
Posts: 82
cornelius785 wrote:
I'm for nuclear power.

Well if there would be lots of Uranium with zero costs and no toxic waste problem then I would agree, too...

As long as you can not match that requirements, I vote for solar power ;-)
Why not use the vast hot deserts in the west, instead of using dangerous materials ?

Do not mix up PV with thermal solar power though, we are talking thermal solar power / concentrating solar power (CSP) here ...

If you want more information:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysDXwvNGHeM

(computer simulation, just music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga2BSlTSevs

Btw, seems like some German companies are going to invest ~$500 billion in the next years to build desertec:

http://www.energetika.net/eu/novice/art ... kontinenta


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:29 am
Posts: 126
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Huh, salts deteriorate? Nobody said anything about evaporating them...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 357
I don't think it is "salt" but liquid sodium (the metal) that will be used for overnight storage of heat in concentrated solar.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:53 am
Posts: 214
hyc wrote:
Huh, salts deteriorate? Nobody said anything about evaporating them...


Liquify (compress) them to store heat. Evaporate (decompress) them to release the heat. You're not evaporating them into air, more likely some other liquid medium. The state differences of the sodium is how you get your hot and cold ends of the loop.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:29 am
Posts: 126
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Liquid sodium is so highly reactive there's no way anyone would use it for this purpose, in the quantities needed. They're using sodium and potassium nitrate. It stays in liquid form through the whole cycle, there's no evaporation step.

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea ... rage-52873


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:55 pm
Posts: 357
There are both demos and theory arguing that liquid sodium is probably one of the best, if not best, heat transfer mechanisms

http://www.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~todorom/tutorials/rad23.html

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978STIA...7844109D

http://www.seia.org/cs/solar_technology ... _power_csp

There obviously is the fire hazard, but it allows for much higher temperatures than salts (1000C vs 250C).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:29 am
Posts: 126
Location: Los Angeles, CA
This new project will be using Stirling engines...

http://www.solarfeeds.com/solar-industr ... ject-.html

http://www.stirlingenergy.com/sustainability.htm

They only talk about a Stirling engine mounted on the solar collector but I imagine you could also drive the Stirling engine from heat stored in a molten salt tank...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:13 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Ireland
Noticed this blog entry today.

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/110 ... night.html

A little article from extremetech also.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2 ... 171,00.asp

gareth


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:13 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Ireland
Talking about visualisation of things quite large, the Greenpeace publication on solar energy is definitely worth a download and a good look.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international ... power-2009

Greenpeace has a lot of stuff published on various company policies to do greener electronics.

gareth


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:48 am
Posts: 81
The first thing that stood out was "With advanced industry development and high levels of energy efficiency, concentrated solar power could meet up to 7% of the world’s power needs by 2030 and fully one quarter by 2050." I may be mistaken, but some of the more 'pessimistic' projections on global warming sort of make this sound like a little too late. Many also say the change has to happen sooner than later. I just don't see solar and wind (and the grid) ready to make a large 'fast' shift to delivering a large percentage of power generation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:53 am
Posts: 214
I wouldn't worry too much about global warming. Life literally blooms in the extra heat according to the fossil record.


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