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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 141
Location: Berlin, Germany
Azazel wrote:
Dresdenboy wrote:
Some number play:
100k 300mm wafers per Q in Fab 1 (GF slide), ~90% useable area (~64,000mm^2), 228mm^2 die size (Llano) ->280 die per wafer:
5% of all wafers for a 32nm ramp of Llano and some bad yields of 40%: 560k/Q
10% wafers for Llano, 50% yields: 1.4 mio/Q
20% wafers for Llano, 75% yields: 4.2 mio/Q

Which numbers would you pick?
I am pretty sure the figures were taken by you, as we called it in Russia, from "ceiling hand-book"("s potolkar") i.e. in vary free and relaxed way. Is not it? :)

You mix simple math with guessing ;) The numbers in the first line are neither estimated nor guessed. Just the three scenarios below are and since we both don't know the exact numbers we can just judge by our gut feeling, which numbers seem more likely. Probability calculations, ne s potolkar ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:19 am
Posts: 499
Location: Moscow, Russia
@Dresdenboy.

I spoke about yields first of all. Also we really don't know how many wafers dedicated to 32nm GloFo can (or wants) burn per each day.

BTW, GloFo formally has plenty well-matured 45nm resources. Have you seen Phenom-II-X4-980?
Quote:
softpedia:
A little more than a month ago, on May 3 to be more precise, AMD unveiled its fastest Phenom II processors to date, the X4 980, but a month after its official release the CPU still isn't available for purchase from any on-line or brick and mortar retailer.
How can you rationally explain it?
Did AMD know on the day of P.980 announcement that she won't can deliver it?


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:19 am
Posts: 499
Location: Moscow, Russia
Somebody else has reached the same conclusion that i had done. :)
Quote:
hexus:
Motherboard manufacturers have already starting wheeling out desktop Llano motherboards, showing us the brand-new FM1 socket. Word on the street is that these desktop chips, to be productised as AMD A4, A6, and A8, won't be available, in good quantity, until the middle of July - and even that availability prognostication seems bullish.

BTW, look at Llano image, the year of production is 2010!
Why couldn't AMD had launched Llano much earlier, at least desktop parts? :?: :o


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:06 pm
Posts: 48
Llano Catalyst Scaling:

http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1106 ... 106131GR06


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:04 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Tampere, Finland
Desktop Llano does not seem to have turbo core, so only 2.9 GHz max :(


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 pm
Posts: 67
hkultala wrote:
Desktop Llano does not seem to have turbo core, so only 2.9 GHz max :(


I'm still trying to make sense of this…


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:06 pm
Posts: 48
Llano notebook at Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd- ... a8-3500m/2


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:25 pm
Posts: 285
Azazel wrote:
@Dresdenboy.

I spoke about yields first of all. Also we really don't know how many wafers dedicated to 32nm GloFo can (or wants) burn per each day.

BTW, GloFo formally has plenty well-matured 45nm resources. Have you seen Phenom-II-X4-980?
Quote:
softpedia:
A little more than a month ago, on May 3 to be more precise, AMD unveiled its fastest Phenom II processors to date, the X4 980, but a month after its official release the CPU still isn't available for purchase from any on-line or brick and mortar retailer.
How can you rationally explain it?
Did AMD know on the day of P.980 announcement that she won't can deliver it?


Softpedia is soft in the head:

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:31 pm
Posts: 40
David Kanter's thoughts on Llano:
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?A ... 2711124854


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:04 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Tampere, Finland
Llano is slight disappointment for me, because the cpu clocks are quite low and that makes cpu performance even worse than expected.. trying to think some reasons for that:


They got the idle power consumption to very good level with power gating, BUT the active power consumption of the cpu cores is still high because of the K7 legacy; old tomasulo-style OOE with almost symmetric execution units wasting lots of power, and it seems that their new 32nm manufacturing tech had only very slight slight improvement on power usage.

This means that they could not clock those cores to very high speeds without reaching the TDP wall, AND even when some cores are power gated off, they cannot clock the remaining cores very high because they would immediately start taking much more juice.

Using lower voltage would move TDP wall further, but then the critical paths inside the cores would become limiting for the clock speeds, limiting the maximum turbo mode speed. The mobile model however seems to use lower voltage than the desktop version.


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 pm
Posts: 67
I'm afraid the reason might be simpler: from what I've seen, Llano doesn't really overclock beyond 3.5~3.6 GHz, even with additional voltage.

Under such circumstances, Turbo can't be much help. Hopefully this situation will improve quickly as GloFo's 32nm matures and, perhaps, with further improvements coming from a base respin.


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 119
If Llano is primarily targeted at laptop designs, perhaps they chose to use slower but less leaky transistors.


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:48 am
Posts: 141
Location: Berlin, Germany
I'm agreeing with Foo_.

The high power consumption of desktop Llano's looks like (!=proof) those dies are not made for high clocks and need a lot of voltage.

BTW at which min/max clocks were the GPU parts running in these OC tests?


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 224
I agree too. It makes perfect sense since it seems AMD had mobile segment in mind when they designed Llano.Low idle power in mobile sector and good GPU perf. looks to be the prime goal for Llano.They are hitting the TDP ceiling fast with 3850 model when both CPU and GPU are under full load .


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome Llano!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 pm
Posts: 67
I guess, but couldn't they make desktop chips with different tuning, optimized for speed?


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